Photo by Howard Owens.
NOTICE: The Stream Data Center project is the Town of Alabama Planning Board meeting for Monday night, 7 p.m., at the Town Fire Hall, for a site plan review.
At every opportunity — public meetings, public information sessions, and in media interviews — Stream Data Centers has spent months telling residents of Genesee County that it wants to be a good neighbor.
That hasn’t been an easy sell. Their proposed project, a three-building, 2.2-million-square-foot data center campus on roughly 130 acres at WNY STAMP, sits beside two wildlife refuges and adjoins Tonawanda Seneca Nation land, raising reasonable concerns among residents.
And then there are the failures of previous projects — Plug Power and 1366 Technologies — that cause some people to distrust the entire process.
Oisín Ó Murchú (pronounced oh-SEEN oh-MUR-koo), Stream’s chief development officer, and Bradley Wells, the company’s senior site selection and development manager, acknowledged all of that in an exclusive interview with The Batavian on Monday morning at the Alabama Fire Hall. They are also convinced they have a strong case that they and Stream Data Centers can be trusted as committed community partners. The project won’t negatively impact residents or the environment, and in the long run, the company will be an economic asset to the region.
“If the community gets behind this project, they will see the positive impact,” Ó Murchú said. “They will see the opportunities, and they will see us as a company come in and support local initiatives that the town needs, that either the tribe needs or people need.”
Wells said the company’s commitment starts with listening.
“Trust isn’t something built in a day,” Wells said. “Trust is something that you earn over time. And I believe that our company has done that and will do that here.”
Both men bring personal reasons for being invested in the project beyond the professional.
Ó Murchú grew up in a small community in the west of Ireland where a large infrastructure project came to his town and changed the trajectory of his life. It launched a career that took him from civil and structural engineering to Google, then to Stream, where he now oversees development.
“I firmly believe that these large projects, when planned correctly, can become a great pathway for people — kids of all different levels of their career — to access things that they never thought they may have been able to access,” he said. “I feel like I’m an example of that.”
Wells grew up in the Southern Tier, north of Binghamton, in a small town not unlike those in Genesee County. He said that background is part of why he was chosen for this project and why he takes it personally.
“I’ve seen what impacts it can bring to communities,” Wells said, “and I really want to see that come home here to upstate New York, where I know that, just based on us being rust belt cities and some of the industries that have come and gone, we’re looking at the precipice of the 21st century and what’s next.”
Wells lives in Syracuse and said residents can count on him remaining part of the community for the life of the project. Ó Murchú said the company is structured specifically to prevent the kind of handoff problems that plague large developments — the same team that starts a project follows it through construction and into operations.
“The biggest risk in projects is where you have handover and information gets lost,” Ó Murchú said. “So the resources that are involved during acquisition and development follow the project through.”
Stream Data Centers, founded in 1999 and headquartered in Dallas, has more than 250 employees and operates data centers in Dallas, Phoenix, Chicago, San Antonio and other markets. More than 90 percent of its inventory is leased to Fortune 100 customers. The company is backed by Apollo Global Management, a financial relationship that has drawn scrutiny from project opponents, who have cited former Apollo chairman Leon Black and his ties to Jeffrey Epstein.
Ó Murchú addressed that directly.
“Any type of ties with Leon Black were back in 2021 or prior, and he is no longer with the company,” he said. “There is no relationship, no tie, or anything to do with this development, Stream Data Centers or Apollo and Epstein.”
Key Facts:
The project
- Three two-story data center buildings totaling approximately 2.2 million square feet on roughly 130 acres at WNY STAMP in the Town of Alabama
- Total project investment: $19.46 billion
- Connects directly to the 345kV bulk power system — a separate grid from residential neighborhoods — and will self-fund $268 million in electrical infrastructure
Jobs and economics
- 1,200 peak construction jobs; approximately 90% union labor
- 125 permanent direct jobs at an average salary of $88,461; 45 additional skilled trades positions through service providers
- 30 to 40 ongoing vendor roles for local firms in security, landscaping, HVAC, electrical and plumbing
- $7 million in base annual PILOT/host payments to Genesee County, the Town of Alabama and the Oakfield-Alabama School District, escalating 2% annually
- $283.9 million in total PILOT payments over 30 years — exceeding what property taxes on assessed value would generate by more than $84.8 million
- $270 million in sales tax revenue to Genesee County over 30 years from electrical usage
- $1.463 billion in sales tax and mortgage tax abatements requested
- Founded in 1999, headquartered in Dallas, Texas
- Just over 250 employees; 31% workforce growth in 2024
- 27 data center developments completed or underway nationally
- More than 90% of data center capacity is leased to Fortune 100 customers, promising Fortune 50 tenant for the Alabama project
- Co-managing partners: Paul Moser and Michael Lahoud
- Backed by Apollo Global Management.
The Batavian: I have a lot of background available on you, but perhaps first, please introduce yourself to the community.
Oisín Ó Murchú: My name is Oisín Ó Murchú. I’m a civil structural engineer. Got chartered in Ireland, then moved over here and took my PE (Principles and Practice) exam.
I think one of the things I’ve used as a guide throughout my career is that I want to work with good people and deliver good projects. That’s been a big part of the moniker for where I work and why I work. Stream Data Centers and its partners really care about their staff and operations team. It makes me proud to have ended up here. I’ve moved here from Google. I think one of the things — I come from a small community in the west of Ireland. A large project came to my town, and I ended up having this career path and career trajectory because of a large project that I was able to get an internship on, and that I was ultimately able to start working for large, cutting-edge engineering companies, and then move through that career path to where I am today and to the company that I’m in today. So I’m really proud of what we do, and I firmly believe that these large projects, when planned correctly, can become a great pathway for people — kids at all different stages of their careers — to access things they never thought they could. And I feel like I’m an example of that, having happened previously.
TB: What attracted you to tech?
Ó Murchú: For me, the speed of what happens, I think. For everybody in civil engineering or structural engineering, the project lifecycle they’re used to is working on projects that are three, four, five years, sometimes 10 years, based on the infrastructure side of things. I think for a lot of people, speed is scary, but for me, it’s amazing to see these facilities developed so quickly, because it’s a demonstration that you can actually put a large infrastructure project together, and with the right amount of planning on the front end, can actually deliver it really quickly as well. So that was a big part of the draw for me.
TB: Bradley, feel free to jump in. I imagine a lot of these questions might be more general project questions.
Bradley Wells: Yeah, and a lot of us are happy to answer questions across the spectrum here. I obviously wanted to bring Oisín in because I think he can speak a lot to the values we hold at Stream Data Centers.
I would say, on a personal level, I grew up in the Southern Tier, north of Binghamton, so I’m happy to be back here. Similar to the standpoints Oisín was discussing, I have worked on large infrastructure projects that have moved rapidly like this, and it’s one of the reasons I’m even at Stream. I have a history with Oisín, back when he was at Google, and I was working in a consulting role, and I had the opportunity to join Stream. I really appreciate the people that I work with and what we can do here, and that’s why I’m excited to be part of this project, because I’ve seen what impacts it can bring to communities, and really want to see that come home here to upstate New York, where I know that, just based on us being rust belt cities and some of the industries that have come and gone, now we’re looking at the precipice of the 21st century and what’s next. And I truly believe that this is one of the things that can kind of bring things back.
TB: We had a personal conversation earlier, but it was after our interview, so I wanted to ask you on the record, where are you going to live, how much you’ll be involved in this going forward — how much are you going to be part of the community?
Wells: You can count on me being part of the community. I live in Syracuse. I work across the nation for Stream, but one of the reasons I was selected for this is obviously being local, and also the expertise I bring to these types of projects. So similar to what Oisín is saying, our team is here for the entire life cycle. And I open that up a little bit for who Stream is, too, in that we’re not just a developer and then turn it over. We’re a site selection, development and operation partner that is here for the long term. So even though we are essentially a landlord to these top tech talents, Stream itself will be a presence in this community for the next 30, 40, 50 years.
TB: Oisín?
Ó Murchú: To add to that a little bit as well — for us, continuity is very important within our teams, because you start a project and commitments are made and they need to be followed through. And the biggest risk in projects is where you have a handover and information gets lost in the handover. So the way we structure our development team is that the resources involved in acquisition and development follow the project through, supporting our operations team as it’s developed and throughout its life cycle. So that’s — we feel strongly about that structure. There are other structures out there where you have an acquisition team, a development team, a design and construction team and an operations team, and sometimes they’re even different companies, and it jumps between those, and you end up with a loss of knowledge.
TB: What is your role in this project?
Ó Murchú: So I’m chief development officer with Stream Data Centers, so I run the development team and part of the site acquisition team. So my role in this project is to make sure that Bradley has the support he needs to implement his vision for the community and what needs to happen here. So from a day-to-day perspective, I’m on weekly calls with Bradley. We’re reviewing the community development initiatives and where we can participate and be more active. We’re also reviewing site diligence, the acquisition plan, and the power delivery plan, and pulling all of that together so we can get to an entitled site that our construction team can start developing.
TB: You are an engineer, so are you actually involved in the engineering, or are you at a supervisory level?
Ó Murchú: Just at a supervisory level. So I have used my 11 to 12 years in the industry, working as everything from an on-site civil superintendent all the way through to a structural design engineer, civil design engineer and more on the commercial contract negotiation side of things. So right now, I just try and take all of that knowledge and transfer it to the team as best as possible and make sure the team is supported.
TB: How many employees overall are there in Stream Data Centers?
Ó Murchú: It’s just over 250 employees. A lot of those are operations staff.
TB: And how many direct reports do you have?
Ó Murchú: At the moment, there are two of us who have a team of eight in the development team.
TB: And are those engineers and architects, or do you outsource that?
Ó Murchú: The skill set of our team ranges from people with MBAs to architects to different skill sets for our specific on-site teams. We have dedicated engineering partners that we work with. We generally have committed engineering partners who know how we like to do things. We don’t generally just bring in new people for specific jobs. We generally have a team that knows how we do things, how we like to do things, and that moves around with us on projects.
TB: I’d say the way the company has presented is that you’re the most ethical, environmentally friendly, community-friendly data center company in the nation. So why should we believe that? What’s the underlying worldview for the company’s owners, or whoever’s in charge, setting that pace that informs that?
Ó Murchú: So from a company perspective, if you look at the vision, mission and values of the company, that is really what we believe — smart, nice, honest, passionate people — and that translates into the developments. I don’t think anybody would make any extreme claims, but I do think this specific development, and I’ll let Bradley talk to it, does represent one of the most environmentally friendly data center developments that is active in the U.S. at the moment.
Wells: Yeah, and that comes down to just the top-line elements, like water use being comparable to a large office building, the fact that our noise profile is going to be essentially at parity with what the normal ambient is out there, with 45 dB nighttime and 65 dB daytime being the elements there.
Ó Murchú: Actually, on the noise one — I was reflecting on it as I was driving out here. My kitchen dishwasher is 45 dB at night. I run that thing at night, and my door to my bedroom is like 10 feet down the hall, and I can’t hear that dishwasher operating when I’m in bed. So from the pride standpoint, it’s like — to say we can do that with the data center at a property boundary at nighttime, and the closest house is 600 feet away — that’s where that fact-based environmental claim comes from.
Wells: And working more hand in hand with those engineering partners that we’re talking about, we’ve really pushed them to densify on this project, too. I mean, we’re doing on 90 acres what would take a couple hundred acres to do from a capacity standpoint, and that’s an intentional approach. The intention was to have the minimal footprint, densify the project so we can get as much as possible without disturbing wetlands or causing major visual intrusions. And even now that we’re getting further into the site plan process, what we’re talking about isn’t just a warehouse full of computers. It can be something that has great architectural character, has intentional native landscaping to it that can — honestly, the landscape that we’ll put in there, even with development going on, is going to be more productive than the fallow agricultural field that’s out there to begin with, just from the standpoint of the flora and fauna that can be supported out there. So these are just a couple of the high-level points that make us feel really confident about this facility’s environmental footprint.
TB: You mentioned the nearest house is about 600 feet away. What commitments will you make to that homeowner that they won’t be disturbed by this?
Wells: Yeah, a lot of that comes from just how we’re approaching the site design, as far as the landscape screening, and then even as we’re talking about the acoustics — we feel really confident in what we’re proposing for the equipment on there, to have it be really, really quiet, so that as you’re standing 600 feet is the same as a doorway away, for the similar type of acoustic profile that his dishwasher has, it’s very, very minimal.
Ó Murchú: The definition of disturbed is very subjective to specific individuals. So all I would say from this is we want direct engagement from people. We want to understand what they want, not what we think they want. And to me, that’s the most important part of every strategy we have. It’s like the school investment — we didn’t say, “This is what you need to do.” It’s like, “Come to us and talk to us and tell us,” and let’s sit down within a small group with a fact-based conversation. And let’s understand what disturbed means, and let’s talk it out together.
TB: That was going to be along the lines of my next follow-up question. Because you’re right, it’s subjective — so they have a complaint, you have objective data measurements or whatever, and there’s a problem. How will you commit to mitigating that, and how far would you go?
Ó Murchú: I would go back to the statement — we want to be good neighbors. We don’t want anybody to feel like they’re pressured to live beside a development they don’t want to live beside. And we want to find a way for them to stay where they are comfortably. So that’s a commitment we will make — to really sit down and look at the problems. And sometimes we may decide to do something without facts to back it up. But at the same time, is that the right thing to do for those locals, because they live close? Probably is. So we’ll lean in and we’ll do that. There’s no real specific examples of that at the moment, because as we said, we feel the development as proposed addresses all of the concerns. But as the development progresses, and after it’s developed, we’ll be here to sit down with them and address anything post-development that they still perceive as an issue.
TB: This jumps ahead of my questions, but it’s related — and I was going to ask this in context, not just of these issues, but also your commitment to supporting the community. Will there be a position locally that’s sort of an ombudsman, a community liaison — there’s a problem, we know exactly who to go to, if there’s a need in the community, and we think Stream can support it, we know exactly who to go to. Will there be that kind of person?
Wells: Yeah, definitely. Obviously, as we’re talking about, I am intended to be that kind of continuity throughout the entire project, but we have people — even our operations team — as Oisín is saying, even after development, there are people there 24/7 that you could call up and say, “Hey, I have a problem,” or “Hey, I see something.” And we have great people who are willing to engage there, too. But we are also expanding our team to be able to continue to work with the community, as far as investments that we can make, both pre- and during-development, and post-development kind of initiatives.
Ó Murchú: So part of the development team is community development, and we will have dedicated resources to the specific projects as well, because running the physical development as well — that is a support system where that need grows, and that needs extra people. And we also hire local — Martin Group and other local consultants — to support as well. So the boots on the ground, local feel and local feedback as well.
TB: A lot of the material you sent over was about the Goodyear campus (outside of Phoenix, Arizona). You seem to be pointing to that as an example of being a good neighbor. But I noticed, looking at the video, it’s a very different setting. It’s already an industrial area; there’s some farmland around. It’s a long way from — looks like — a lot of residential. Are there any projects that you have that are comparable to what we have here — the sensitive areas, the closer residents, the not-already-industrial?
Ó Murchú: So what I would say about the Goodyear campus is there are residences across the road from that development, similar to here. It was a 150-acre farm with one facility at one end when we purchased it. So even in its developed state, it probably looks a lot different now. I appreciate that the airport was there and the logistics, but we actually had active farming on that site as we developed south, and we had a super relationship with the farmer — they basically farmed it for crops while we were developing sites. So I think there are more similarities with that development than you would think, in terms of its original state and its developed state. That’s why we picked that as a comparison.
TB: Are there any other small rural communities where you’re active?
Ó Murchú: I think we have a few. Did you mention the tour that happened?
Wells: Yeah, so we actually did a tour with some of the local town officials at three different locations — one in San Antonio, that’s actually very similar in dimensions to what we’re going to build here, from overall height, footprint, length, width — as well as two other facilities outside of Dallas. One of those facilities in Dallas actually is directly across from a large condominium and townhome development, and some of them, I know, just in conversations they had before they joined us on site, had gone around the neighborhood and asked some questions of the residents there, too. And many of the residents actually weren’t aware that there was our data center across the street, let alone two larger data centers right next to them. They obviously recognized them as industrial properties, but they had no issues or understanding of exactly what was there, again, even from a noise or operations standpoint. So it was good to take them through those facilities and see that all firsthand. And I use that just as an example — the front of that Stream data center facility is probably 300 feet away from that residential development there, too, and we’ve never had any issues with the residents at that facility.
Ó Murchú: The other location I would call out is in Atlanta, in Douglas County, where we’re developing. We’ve put together a large development there. There are a number of residential properties around that property. We ultimately rezoned the property. We sat down with those residents and walked them through our plan for the development. And there were people who didn’t like it before we went in, and it was because of all the news online about data centers using a lot of water, being really noisy, and not being good stewards of the community. And ultimately, with our development plan, we were able to sit down with the facts about what we were actually building there, and they came on board and even stood up and spoke in favor of the development when we brought it to the planning board.
TB: So how far along is that project?
Ó Murchú: We broke ground, and we’re developing our first building at the moment. So we’re grading the pad at that property right now.
TB: From what I saw online, there are some issues with data centers in Goodyear — they’re looking at putting in more zoning limits and noise and water rules. What’s driving that, and has anything you’ve done there helped drive that?
Ó Murchú: The interesting thing about Goodyear is we’re actually actively engaged with them, structuring those new ordinances. And some of the things that they’re looking at — they actually toured our facilities with us, and they see how the lower building height actually impacts how you squeeze in your equipment in the building, and they see how it actually creates issues for operations and the team working on the building. So they’re looking to raise the equipment height, and they’ve made some concessions on rooftop screening to improve flow for personnel and operations throughout the facility. I think they are looking at noise ordinances, but honestly, when you look at our facilities, none of those noise ordinances would affect how we operate, because we’re typically well below the limits at our property boundaries.
TB: So this project has received a lot of criticism, and so far, have there been any concerns raised by town officials or other people in the community that you’ve been responsive to, that you’re making changes to what you’re doing, or have you rethought some things?
Wells: I mean, even our sketch plan — we had that here, too — talking about general massing of everything. And we weren’t yet at the point where we really had a substantial amount of good landscape design there. And I think that’s something that’s progressed a lot in that same time, to be able to again acknowledge the context in which we’re in, understanding that there are two wildlife refuges here, the landscape in itself is the habitat for a lot of that. So again, trying to look at it from the landscape performance standpoint is one thing that I feel pretty proud that we’ve really advanced in that amount of time. And then obviously, again, noise is one of the things that has constantly been a question for us as well. I know there are some local residents who have asked for additional information directly to the team and me here, too, and we’ve provided them both with specific equipment specs, as well as the ability to look at other opportunities where there are similar types of facilities operating with those same types of equipment and the data that’s behind that. So where we can, we’re providing all the information to be as transparent as possible about what we’re doing.
Ó Murchú: I even think, if you look back to the first project award and the competing projects that were proposed for here, that’s a hallmark of why this development is so different. The other proposed projects had 30 to 40 generators per building. We’re down to two generators per building for backup generation at the site. So I even think we have been really proactive in looking at which developments and what types of use would make sense up here. I think even from the project award, the first decision, you can see that, and it is a testament to GCEDC and the local team for picking a project that was more suited to the environment here.
TB: It’s my understanding that the discretionary power of the government agencies involved in the approval process — they have to apply objective standards, it’s some high bars, it just can’t be “I don’t like it” sort of radar. But you’re doing a pretty much full-court press to convince the community you’re going to be good neighbors. What in the regulatory process concerns you that could trip you up, that community support matters?
Ó Murchú: I don’t associate community support with the regulatory process. We’re good people, and we want to be accessible to the community. We really do want this development to be transformative for the community, regardless of what happens through the regulatory process. That’s a project-related item. We’re looking at this as a way to bring the benefits to the community, and all we want from them is engagement on what kinds of things will make a difference out here, and how we can actively work with you on those things to make a difference. So our full-court press on the project, while it looks like “Oh, they’re just doing it to get the project approved,” I don’t associate those two together. And it really is — I worked with Bradley when we were at Jacobs, I worked with him at Google — we hire good, nice people who treat people with respect. That’s how our whole team is structured, and that’s how we all work here. So the one thing I would like for people to come out of this is — you’re going to have good people in your community, you’re going to have good neighbors, and if you have a problem, we’re going to sit down and work with you, and we’re going to figure it out.
TB: There was a book that came out while I was an executive at Scripps called “The No Asshole Rule” — that was always how we tried to operate.
Ó Murchú: Yeah, definitely. And you’re going to have tough days at work, but if you’re working with good people, it’s ultimately a place you want to be. You’re going to be proud of where you are, want to be there and continue to work there.
TB: What commitments can you make in writing as far as water use? What happens if you exceed it? Are you willing to consider a condition that residential and commercial use take priority during any drought?
Wells: Yeah, I mean, the technical information is out there in the site plan. And there’s a difference even in the total amount of water, between what’s being used for toilets and whatnot and what’s being used for humidifiers in the building. Anybody who lives in upstate New York knows that once winter comes, things start to get staticky, and sensitive electronic equipment doesn’t really like that, either. So when people look at that, you can kind of see the breakdown between what’s used for potable water and what’s used for climate control. We feel pretty confident in the numbers that we have there. So we’re obviously open to other commitments that we can make through the regulatory process as we move forward, too. But I’d also throw it out there that GCEDC has confirmed the capacity available in the park, which is hundreds of thousands of gallons more than we use on a daily basis. So, for there to be a point at which there’d be a significant drought that we’d have to cut back even on that very low water use, would be very unlikely. But again, if it made the community more certain about our values and our commitment, yeah, we would definitely consider those things.
Ó Murchú: And just to put it in relative terms as well — the real phenomenal water use just comes from canteens, cleaning and flushing toilets. So, from an offset perspective, it’s such a small amount of water that I really don’t think, from a conservation perspective, people would see us as a large water user. There are other commercial businesses — even this room we’re in right now; I think it has a capacity of about 120 people. That’s more people than will be on our whole site. And I know that’s a different discussion, but from a water-use perspective, this building would have a larger profile for water and wastewater use when it’s in use than our three data centers would.
TB: I wanted to talk a little bit about jobs. Any priority for Genesee County contractors or residents regarding work related to this facility?
Wells: Yes, and we’re talking about opportunities for us to either work with local programs like Genesee Community College to be able to help people get in the door there, too. And our general contractor team is local as well, and I think we’re going to have 90% union labor on the project. So, especially from the construction part of it, it’s absolutely going to be very much a local effort for the building of these facilities. And we, as a company, are working to get more people in with lower hurdles on the technical track, too, because these are not just software jobs — these are people who need to understand mechanical, electrical and plumbing systems to help them work. And we’re working in other areas to essentially get people in and train them up in the industry, instead of expecting someone who says, “Hey, I’ve already worked in the industry for five years, can I have a job?” Obviously, that’s a great placement, but we want the opportunity for people to grow with the industry and with us.
TB: I realize you’re not announcing which Fortune 50 company you’re bringing in yet, but if that’s somebody who cancels, scales back or leaves early. Are there clawbacks or other guarantees in place to protect the community?
Ó Murchú: So, as Stream Data Centers, we are making these commitments. So we will be here. If, for whatever reason, they leave, we will still be here, meet our commitments to the community, and ultimately look for another tenant in the building. So I think the community should take comfort in the fact that we, as Stream Data Centers, are making all of these commitments and we’re going to back them up.
Photo by Howard Owens.
TB: Is there any reason we should be concerned that Stream Data Centers would say we don’t want to be in Genesee County anymore, and we wind up with a different partner?
Ó Murchú: I don’t think so. From what we’ve seen, there is obviously a public perception of data centers, and honestly, I think that is one of the biggest issues. From the work we’ve done with Genesee County, the local town and everyone here, there has been a lot of support because of the recognition of the economic benefits the project will bring and the other community development opportunities it will create. So we’re comfortable that there is strong enough support to move the development forward.
TB: I want to talk about Apollo because opponents have been talking about it a lot. What is their role? Do they have any controlling authority that would affect this project in any way?
Ó Murchú: So the first thing I want to share is Apollo invested in Stream Data Centers because of the people who are in Stream Data Centers. When they were doing their due diligence on a data center platform to get involved with, one of the big aspects was Stream Data Centers — smart, nice, honest, passionate people who care about their communities and who build, own and operate data centers. So their investment hypothesis is based on us being in communities, ingrained and long-term, and having people from the community be part of the development. So, from that perspective, what we’re doing here aligns exactly with Apollo’s intent for this development. And I will say, personally, they’re more than supportive of heavy investment in the community, and we, as a business, are trying to figure out how public misconceptions about the data center industry and about community investment can be solved together. So they’re actively involved. They are actively involved in investment decisions, and every decision we have made to date — similar to the money that went to the community and the money that went to the school — is made by a combined decision-making group. But they’re fully supportive of Stream Data Centers, our mission, vision, values and how we operate. And they’ve been more than supportive.
TB: I think as soon as you bring in the name Epstein to this, people are not going to trust Apollo. So how do we trust Apollo?
Ó Murchú: From that respect — and I think it’s well documented — any type of ties with Leon Black were back in 2021 or prior, and he is no longer with the company, and there is no relationship, no tie, or anything to do with this development, Stream Data Centers, Apollo and Epstein. And we’re just going to have to keep sharing that, because I know that it will get misconstrued, but that is the reality of the situation.
TB: Are there — I think they operate in a pretty highly regulated environment. And even though you say Leon Black’s not involved anymore, it raises for me the specter of whether, if they get into any kind of regulatory or financial trouble, that would affect this project.
Ó Murchú: The way these projects are structured is — because they’re such a high capital project — we work with our tenant, the development and our financial partner, to ensure that everything is sequenced so that the tenant, the financing and the development team are moving in sync with one another. So that would not impact the development.
TB: Once all the approvals are in place and you’re ready to break ground, we shouldn’t have any concern about financial hiccups?
Ó Murchú: No, definitely not. These projects are actually the opposite — they are much more predictable because of the high capital investment required and the need for engagement across the capital stack to bring them to fruition.
TB: One part of what drives skeptical questions — and I think this is what makes the community skeptical — is that while I understand kind of what happened at the Ag Park, what happened with 1366, what happened with Plug — people see that and go, we can’t trust any of you guys.
Ó Murchú: And one of the huge differences here is the industries that rely on government subsidies. And from that respect —
TB: You’re talking specifically about Plug and 1366?
Ó Murchú: Yeah, lots of different businesses where, depending on how the regulations change, or depending on how the preference towards renewable energy or not renewable energy changes, or what happens with tax credits that are available, that can have a big impact. I think one of the things we’ve heard a lot about here and proactively talked through is the incentive package for this project, which is based on available statutory requirements. That’s not discretionary. That is what the park offers as part of its development. The reason they’ve had to put a structure like that together is that they have to be competitive regionally for these types of projects that could effectively go to any state. So our desire is to bring this commercially competitive project to upstate New York so that the investment lands here. But ultimately, we have to be competitive with another data center developer in another city or town. So I think there was an analogy about players on sports teams — it’s like there is a competitive landscape, and generally they’ll go to the place that pays them the most or has the best system or setup. And it’s a similar thing with the data center industry. It’s like there’s so much happening across the U.S. that, to land a project that actually brings real investment here, you have to operate at a cost that makes sense.
(The recording cut out at this point briefly, but Ó Murchú confirmed the project is receiving no federal or state grants, and the funding, other than the potential tax incentives via GCEDC, is private equity.)
TB: Your documents mentioned 180 site selection criteria. What specific standards from those policies — your internal policies — will be enforceable? Or will you make it enforceable as far as STAMP? First of all, let’s back up — can you discuss what those 180 criteria are, especially as they relate to the local environment?
Ó Murchú: So I’m a civil structural engineer, and the structural engineer in me is very data-based and data-oriented. Through our experience across the team — Bradley’s experience, my experience, Mike Levo, Taylor Ogilvy and the number of team members we collaborated with on those 180 line items — we came up with guidelines for our specific projects that they would need to meet. So in the environmental aspects, it goes through your Phase 1 ESA, your Phase 2 ESA if you need to do it, your cultural resources studies, your threatened and endangered species studies, your noise studies and your air emission studies. And then we have a section on community development and community impact, as well as the guidelines we abide by as a group and as a function of the company. And we’re already implementing all of those. The reason you see us here today, and the reason you see us working so hard with the community, is because we feel we have a responsibility to do that, and we’re not just going to go away. It’s kind of an interesting one — to have put all of those together from the ground up with the intent of being responsible, with assurance of the community and the environment, and then we’re very much trying to challenge a perception of the data center industry that has been established because of other developments that have happened elsewhere and have had negative impacts. So we hope people see and honestly trust us, but we know that’s a hard ask given everything out there.
Wells: Yeah, and then ultimately what that looks like on the ground here, too, is within the two processes that we’re working with — with GCEDC and the Town of Alabama — there already is a really comprehensive environmental impacts report and statement that the project needs to have consistency with. Our application to GCEDC is over 145 pages and has technical summaries about what we’re proposing. And that goes even further with the Town of Alabama — we need to comply with all zoning codes. Ultimately, with those two, as far as commitments — those are the commitments. Those applications say the town’s going to approve this site plan, which says you need to have these dark-sky-compliant lights; that’s also in the environmental impact statement. When those are ultimately approved by those authorities, that’s what people look back with. That’s what the county is going to look back with. That’s what the town is going to look back with as we start to develop — this is what your site plan was, this is how it’s supposed to be developed. I want to see those lights come in, I want to see that landscape come in. So that’s part of this overall process — what Oisín’s talking about is what gets us on the ground to begin with and guides us in shaping our initial proposal. And then we align that either to what we think are really prescriptive, well-done regulations to begin with, or in the example of Goodyear, where there are opportunities for us to work with municipalities to say, hey, your code says this, we think there’s a better way to do it that meets your objectives and also allows us to build a really high-quality development.
Ó Murchú: The other analogy I’ll draw is the airline industry, which is generally considered one of the safest industries in the world. They effectively double down on checklists. That is how they have been able to be that safe and have that reputation. And when you drill down into why, it’s because they have a good checklist, and they close out their checklists. And no — Bradley will be looking at me like that — you asked what I do on a weekly basis.
TB: So we’ve talked a lot about trust, about the culture of your company. So I want to ask each of you — your name on this promise — what do you promise to Genesee County about this project?
Ó Murchú: I would say back to my own history — I promise that if the community gets behind this project, they will see the positive impact, and they will see the opportunities, and they will see us as a company come in and support local initiatives that the town needs, that either the tribe needs or people need. So I commit that if people engage in an earnest manner, we will bring benefits to this community beyond just the project.
Wells: I think my promise is something that we’re already doing, and I really believe in — we promise to listen and to find ways to make this something that they can be proud of as well. As Oisín is saying, we’re not going to agree on every single point, but I think you’ve got to start by being able to listen, engage and figure out what the need ultimately is. And as we mentioned, one good, tangible example is what we already did with the school — it wasn’t “Hey, we just think this is a good idea, you guys probably need some help and funding, there you go.” It was an intentional — what are the real needs that you have that we can help support it? And unless you talk to people, listen to people — trust isn’t something built in a day. Trust is something that you earn over time. And I believe our company has done so and will do so here.
Photo by Howard Owens
